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  1. #21
    Decent Member Wrestler Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough
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    Re: The Whole Sanctum-TWC Video Situation

    Warning: This whole situation is FUCKING stupid so this response is about to be some SEVERE fence-sitting so be prepared to get angry because by default, I’m gonna disagree with you(unless you’re specifically Colin or Jake because I think they had the most level headed responses).

    (You can insert a disgruntled CM Punk GIF from All Out here)

    Part 1: The Preface

    I’mma start this off by laying a groundwork cause this is something that I’ve seen “both sides”(ugh) try and dance around and that’s the IC vs. OOC thing.

    There is no form of moral high ground to take. This is 150% OOC infused. This means that you can’t sit there and try and defend it by saying it makes sense in character cause it doesn’t. And by that same token, you can’t try and attack the IC side of it using OOC information or act like you’re not acknowledging the OOC when you definitely are.

    If you took out all the discord and just “treated it like a real wrestling show”, then you’d sit there and be like “This is a poopy video but they’re gonna feud I guess” and it doesn’t make any sense. But at the same time, that’s not where the outrage lies. The outrage is “This person doesn’t like x person on discord and talks bad or said they’re not gonna work with this guy but they made this video about them, they must be tryna get at them”

    Part 2: What Should Have Happened

    Knowing what we know now and the supposed ideas going into it, this is what should have happened as this whole situation might have been the MOST AVOIDABLE SITUATION that anybody could have predicted if they thought about it.

    If you didn’t wanna spoil your match that’s fine, that’s reasonable, but this is clearly NOT how you do it. In my head, you have 2 options:

    1. You can approach TWC beforehand but just don’t mention titles. If you want to pitch it specifically as a Non-Title feud, idk knock yourself out. You can use the OOC idea that you said you’d never give them a title shot just to fuck with them if you so pleased.

    2. The Fun Option. Instead of sneaking them with the video on this show, you don’t. You cut a heel promo after your match and call out the whole division. Go shoot-y if you want. “We buried this whole division 6 feet deep and now the division is a graveyard”. After that, what’s a good spot to get a lot of eyes to “breathe new air into the feud”? IDK maybe the PPV. You let the heel promo air and thus let the results of the match be known and then go to TWC and confirm the feud and have them come out on PPV and be like “We’re still here” and you guys go “LOL NOPE!” and play the video.
    You see how easy it is to do what you want without spoiling the results of your match. It’s a shit reason at best and a poorly thought out excuse at the worst.

    Part 3:The Video Itself

    It’d be one thing if the video was JUST poorly made, which it was, or if it was JUST bad taste, which it was, or if the issue was that it buried TWC too hard, which it did but it somehow did all three and worse.

    The quality of the video I don’t think is particularly up for debate so I don’t think I need to spend so much time on this one. From an OOC perspective, it seemed low effort and the people involved can do better and have done better. From an IC perspective, it seemed like it was done by one of Fraser’s children on a school laptop.

    I don’t think the bad taste thing is debated either as it was probably just meant as a playful(more on that later) jab at TWC, OOC. However, it’s clear that this missed that boat on all fronts.

    From an IC thing, this buries TWC not necessarily so bad, but in such an uncreative way, based on statistics, that it basically creates the next point.

    If we are to believe that this was supposed to be a “surprise kickstart” to an old feud or “a twist to change things up” then none of the matter because of the execution. If they wanted to switch the affiliations and do that, that would be interesting. However, because of how they went about it and it being so uninspired, I have less than zero interest in watching this match and thus the whole point of the wrestling angle is moot.

    Final thing is if you are gonna do some tongue-in-cheek inside joke video or whatever this was thought to be, make it efficiently. As Jay says, KISS.

    Finally, this video and this sort of behavior is toxic however…

    Part 4: The Response

    It’s not the end of the world and not an attack on OCW as a whole.

    The most overblown part of the response to this video that I have seen is the amount of maliciousness attributed in this situation.

    To think that this is some sort of hit piece on TWC or just trying to bury them is almost as naive as thinking that this sort of video would ACTUALLY bury somebody and have a negative impact in (today’s?) OCW.

    To attribute this as an act of hate would not only assume so much hate and aforementioned naiveness, but that would fly in the face of so much OOC stuff that would point otherwise. But hey, maybe I just know too much or maybe yall seeing something I’m not.

    As I said before, this seemed like a playful diss more than a hateful one. SURELY, if this is hateful, then the idea would not have been to give them a title match. SURELY, if this is hateful, then there wouldn’t be a history of all people working together previously in other formats or there would have been something that you can point to that caused this sudden hateful reaction. Thank God, none of that’s the case or there would have been way bigger problems in OCW than this.

    This is with me saying in VP, "Is this 2013?" and referring to the times when people were slimy and trying to drag others but that was well-knowing that this is not what that is. It'd be one thing if Sanctum weren't the champs and were challengers trying to bury other challengers to get ahead and seem stronger but this so far from that.

    I’mma feel so stupid saying this but I guess I have to say it.

    If you believed Carter saying “Stop Ducking” and Fraser clapping back on discord in repetitive circular arguments was real hatred between the two teams, you got worked.

    Just Cringed Hella Hard, moving on.

    Part 5: The Response to The Response to The Response or Something

    In this exact instance, “Let It Play Out”, is a terrible defense.

    The reason it is a terrible defense is because “Let It Play Out” relies on the other side playing along and not having plans which is normally not an issue IF YOU CONSULT THEM but since they had no idea, “Let It Play Out” is basically “Trust Me Bro” and some prayers.

    If Aisu or Marcus says, “That’s too far” or “I have plans” then there is no letting it play out.

    That’s why “Let It Play Out” is bad in this instance, notice how it’s not a bad defense because “Bad Guy Used to Say It”. That is a terrible argument against it and is really just a form of a subliminal ad-hominem as opposed to an actual argument.

    Throughout the years of OCW, many people, and people of importance, have used "Let It Play Out" as a valid defense because sometimes, you just don't have the full picture. There is a time and a place. This was not one of those times but doesn't make the argument suddenly good.

    Speaking of “that bad guy”, I don’t know if it’s out of fear that there’s another among us or just horniness to call it out first and say “I told you so” but not everything is Chet.

    A number of months back, Kass said something (and this very well could have been Kass doing Kass things and if so well played and power to ya) along the lines of “Wow The MARK OUTs on this show remind me of Chet Era” as if mark outs are a valid indication of anything of value.

    This IS(as opposed to could be) my ignorance talking, as I wasn’t around then, but associating an action with bad person and calling the action bad because of said association is dumb and not helpful to anything. If there is an issue or something that’s bad, say why it’s bad and not just some comparison to Dark Times of OCW. That is of course if you want to productively improve things and have a discourse and not just saying things for your own enjoyment.

    Part 6: Final Thoughts and Discord Stuff

    This is a single video on a single weekly show.

    Calling this “duplicitous snake like behavior” is FUCKING crazy.

    Similarly (as Jake already touched on), responding with “ESPECIALLY with all I contribute” is also FUCKING crazy.

    Let us (including me, possibly only me because this is so late) relax.
    "The Superstar" Maxx Edwards

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  3. #22
    Cer Ti Fied Kasshole V.I.P Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes has much to be proud of Kassidy Hayes's Avatar
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    Mark outs are in of themselves are suppose to show value. They are the equivalent of a thumbs up or agree with and show a alignance towards the content or opinion. Chet and stooge squad only marked out on shows when either they had the majoroty of it or "their" show.


    So yes i did say that and stand right by it only thing i have noticed differently is they mark out for no show so its not chet behavior just if they do watch the shows on the forum like they say they just dont show any forum support for said shows and thats fine.


    You can guage certain things in small details.


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  5. #23
    Billy Bad Ass Wrestler Colin Locke is a jewel in the rough Colin Locke is a jewel in the rough Colin Locke is a jewel in the rough Colin Locke is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Edwards View Post
    To attribute this as an act of hate would not only assume so much hate and aforementioned naiveness, but that would fly in the face of so much OOC stuff that would point otherwise. But hey, maybe I just know too much or maybe yall seeing something I’m not.

    As I said before, this seemed like a playful diss more than a hateful one. SURELY, if this is hateful, then the idea would not have been to give them a title match. SURELY, if this is hateful, then there wouldn’t be a history of all people working together previously in other formats or there would have been something that you can point to that caused this sudden hateful reaction. Thank God, none of that’s the case or there would have been way bigger problems in OCW than this.

    This is with me saying in VP, "Is this 2013?" and referring to the times when people were slimy and trying to drag others but that was well-knowing that this is not what that is. It'd be one thing if Sanctum weren't the champs and were challengers trying to bury other challengers to get ahead and seem stronger but this so far from that.

    I’mma feel so stupid saying this but I guess I have to say it.

    If you believed Carter saying “Stop Ducking” and Fraser clapping back on discord in repetitive circular arguments was real hatred between the two teams, you got worked.
    While, obviously, I respect your point, to me, this part in particular is the issue. This might not have exactly been what you meant, but I latched onto this in the same way I latched onto Jay's comment about 'factions' in the sit rep. You might know something I don't, you might be in certain situations where you see certain pieces of info, you might have had people come to you to tell you things in confidence, or rant their perspective at you when something went wrong, or right. Equally, I might know more than you, I might have had experiences corroborated by things I've heard from heard from people, I might have had people say things to me, everyone's got a different context for this that makes them read it in a certain way. Now, that can't be avoided, but when we seemingly have groups of people that have had vastly different experiences, some that seem unaware of anything happening, and some that seem to be aware of everything, I see a problem.

    I don't believe that Sanctum's handlers were cackling and rubbing their hands together at the thought of bullying TWC. I don't believe TWC's handlers are hiring hitmen to track down Sanctum. However, I do not believe, after a public tantrum on discord, an overt display of stubbornness, and someone who seemed barely able to speak, while other members expressed confusion, anger, disgust, even, that Sanctum are gonna burst out of the wardrobe with a hidden camera going 'YOU JUST GOT PUNK'D' and Jay, TWC, Rust, Pugh, Jake are gonna start howling with laughter and going 'damn Colin, you're one gullible bastard'.

    After all, like I said, godawful video, one of the worst I've seen in my time here, that's one thing. A public tantrum, where it's outright stated that a member should be able to wear that attitude because of 'all they did for OCW'? That's another, and as a handler that puts a lot of time and thought into what I do, who sees people like yourself, Maxx, Jake, and countless others that put hours into doing our best while still not being able to fathom the workload Jay has for most part, that pisses me off. Maybe I'm getting worked, brother, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm not gonna assume it's actually Ashton Kutcher in a duck costume.

    To build on Maxx's 'let it play out' point, the reason why 'let it play out' is being laughed at, is because it's arrogant here. Every variation of 'yeah, you don't get it, let it play out because here's what we're doing' is barely galaxy brain booking, it's straight point a to point b storytelling with a bit of pointless 'point a 2: tokyo drift' to make the whole thing less clear and less fun to follow. 'Let it play out' is something you say when you've earned enough trust, put out an esoteric or left field story beat, and you have people wondering what's going on. It's for 'Why did Maxx end up on the floor after beating Kass?', it's for 'Wait, is H2O Quartz' literal brother', or 'Wait, are there really two Elliot Parkers?'. It's not for when the near-unanimous opinion, held by legends, veterans, newcomers, and the bloody site owner alike think what you've put out stinks worse than most things they've seen in their time here, and it's negatively affected the way they look at the people who made it. This is the time to swerve, and make your story clearer, take on the criticism and use actual skill and craft to make this story something worth watching, reading, engaging in. No one should ever assume that they already are weaving their stories with so much craft and skill that these plebs just don't get it, man. Every one of the 'let it play outs' I just listed point to a flaw in the execution, in the storytelling. A fixable one, and one that was eventually clarified, but a flaw nonetheless, even the best here can lose sight of their intentions and make something that doesn't quite hit. That's fine, that's what progress is, shit, that's what I've been doing for the last seven years of my life getting to a PhD level of music, getting shit wrong and serving up things that only I understand until I dropped my ego and started learning.

    At this point, I'm really just hammering the same point, but this shit is tiring. If anyone looks at all this and can use any of this discussion as advice, even if it's just a general 'do not do this', it's worth it. This could have just been a particularly bad video that we could move on from. But nah, we had to be arrogant with it, pretend that people who've done this for years don't get the most basic wrestling story that you could possibly conceive of. We had to have the public tantrum, the attitudes that are making people think that this is malice rather than stupidity.

    Or maybe I'm just being worked. Who knows.

    ---

    I'm really enjoying the Terra/Sue stuff at the moment, that's a general set of developments that's got me tuning in and reading the werdz, I wanna see where it ends up, it's a nice little story.

    That's it, that's my positivity for today, I'm mildly old, tired, and on wednesdays I teach composition to children.

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  7. #24
    Decent Member Wrestler Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough Maxx Edwards is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Locke View Post
    To build on Maxx's 'let it play out' point, the reason why 'let it play out' is being laughed at, is because it's arrogant here. Every variation of 'yeah, you don't get it, let it play out because here's what we're doing' is barely galaxy brain booking, it's straight point a to point b storytelling with a bit of pointless 'point a 2: tokyo drift' to make the whole thing less clear and less fun to follow.
    I think in the original post I mentioned how "Let It Play Out" could be a way of saying "I was never planning of doing what you think I was doing, there's more you don't know" and while that is possible I think there is another less valid but understandable reason to say "Let It Play Out". It could also just be a way to pseudo-admit "I am wrong and I am gonna course correct". It could be "I was planning on doing what you think I was doing, but now I am not so let it...". In this second variation, it could be just a way someone tries to "make the hate go away" if they don't necessarily feel comfortable coming out as being in the wrong. Again, less valid, but understandable as a person might not feel comfortable telling the mob with pitchforks "Yeah you guys are right. I am terrible." It also serves as a realistic point of view as there is nothing anyone can do now as what's out there is out there, so all anyone can do it "let it play out". Not saying this even applies to this scenario, just mainly food for thought.

    Communication, even to those who have done something wrong, is still important.

    Assuming the worst case scenario, and treating the person opposite of you as the spawn of Satan isn't gonna bring them any closer to you and is only gonna make them feel more ostracized. Not saying that you've even done that here but it's just something that we as a community need to be conscious of. We see this happen all of the time in other popular incendiary spaces.

    You can insert any vague religious saying here about Spreading Love and Not Hate and being nice to the people around you. Thank you.

    Edit: To add on to my point about communication,

    I honestly get so worked up sometimes writing these long posts and it's just because I see all this hostility between a bunch of people who I personally don't hold any negative feelings against or see as "bad people" and then my youth and naivety just steps in and goes "Guys Stop It! Can't We All Be Friends" but while possible, that's clearly not plausible.
    "The Superstar" Maxx Edwards

  8. #25
    Getting too old for this $### Administrator Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation has a reputation beyond repute Mr.Sensation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Edwards View Post
    I honestly get so worked up sometimes writing these long posts and it's just because I see all this hostility between a bunch of people who I personally don't hold any negative feelings against or see as "bad people" and then my youth and naivety just steps in and goes "Guys Stop It! Can't We All Be Friends" but while possible, that's clearly not plausible.

    Cuz you're a good egg.
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    make him tap with brownie mix

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  10. #26
    Moderator Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz has a brilliant future Quartz's Avatar
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    Okay - I'm going to try and do this now. I know I rampaged about a lot of stuff and was over the top in my criticism for the laughs, I am but a large baby-man shouty joke maker.

    Turmoil 287

    Emp starts the show

    Reminds me of The Miz opening the show and running down the card, though Empress is getting cheered and not boo'd. It's exactly how I'd expect P3 to run the show.

    OCW Tag Title Match

    An asswhooping of the highest order. I always get excited for a Sanctum entrance (well, I used to. More on that later) and this is no different. I kind of expected a little more effort from the Lads, who gained a bit of momentum before this heading into the match. Maybe some custom entrances or trons or at least taking the Turmoil generic branding off.

    Match was fine, not a lot of negatives, not not a lot of positives either. Wasn't the most memorable match until the end. Sanctum pick up another W through creative DQ means and then proceed to absolutely massacre the lads. Looks to me that the low-effort Colby stand-ins are being written off. I knew they were Colby-centric but based on their look and vibe, I was hoping to see more development and and permanence from them going forward with Colby on the shelf. Oh well.

    Sanctum to the Bah + THAT video

    To any point where you can critique Sanctum's lack of developed or longer term feuds within the tag division, they are never slacking on overall representation and presence. All three men do a great job maintaining a consistent presence and always making sure the tag titles are represented on TV. They have been also mostly consistent in keeping the Sanctum vibe clear without muddying the waters too much. This consistency is what allowed OWEN's fired up content vs DOC more effective.

    Now, I appreciate that part of the RP, but this also falls into a not so great trope that you sometimes see in wrestling where the champions will dampen THEIR division for no real reason. Comments like "We cleaned out the division" or inferring there's no one left or that the division has been left in the dust. I'm not a fan of that.

    A. There is always someone else to fight.
    B. Your accomplishments seem less impressive when you're telling me the division you dominate is/was in shambles.

    This isn't to say it's universally wrong, I just have a hard time reading them as heels right now. I can clearly see the shift start here to being arrogant assholes, so on that front it works assuming that's the impression you're intending to leave.

    That said, "if we don't get the respect we deserve, we take it by force" doesn't make much sense to me coming from a champion of 9 months who has been almost universally appreciated since day 1 when he arrived and even ran a multi-month feud with a team that was based around them respecting you so much they wanted to wrestle you. It's more of a comment you'd hear from a young up and coming tag team.

    Lots of things to analyze here in terms of what it means for Sanctum's direction. It's interesting. Looking forward to the first major evolution in the team going forward.
    --
    Plus I guess I'll talk about the video here since it's not on the webshow. First and foremost, I hated it. I hated it live and said "that was dumb" and moved on. Things happen and not everything is going to land, pretty much everything has been said about this already, from the fact there was "LOLs" and joke descriptions in a Sanctum video which is completely out of character for them, to the fact that it went hard in burying the success of a team they plan to fight later, from it being too long, etc.

    The fact that this didn't have an ounce of Sanctum feeling or Sanctum vibe to it was what made it dumb for me. Felt like a video someone would just make to post in Discord, not one that the very proud, confident members of a respected group would greenlight in character. I don't even necessarily think you needed to ask permission since it is archival footage, but that's besides the point to me, using the archival footage in this way didn't land well and that's obvious at this point so we can move on now. Live and learn.

    The RP OWEN did with DOC and the RP they had in the bar were way more effective ways to begin leaning heel than this was.
    --
    Val Vitriol vs Noimara

    First - I am a big fan of Val's new look. While Val may be content just being a fun background character for matches like these, I'm always hoping for more big developments character wise or focused feuds.

    Noimara's presentation is great, for me. I like the more direct scary spooky vibes juxtaposed to the mental spooky or mind-games type stuff we've seen in other spooky characters.

    Noimara absolutely housed the poor bumble bee on this one. An effective match that showcased Noimara as a beast. That finish spitting into the hand into the sig into the fin was very good as well.

    Primero's Split

    Hey now, I thought I had the market cornered on internal self-character monologues!

    Jokes aside, Elliott's evolution into this smooth talking, calm natured duplicitous weirdo still has me. I was in when he committed to the bit before and I'm in now.

    Pushing Primero to have this internal convo with the babyface version of himself was nice. The very similar attires with just the logos changed (and the mask) was a very nice touch. Unsure if this was an outright babyface turn or just a precursor, but all the little references and differences between the two characters worked for me.

    Have not hated this Parker/Parca feud.

    Chance and Harris get Reps

    Harris preps for the huge match in one of the longer-term rivalries we have in OCW. Turner/McMichaels are two characters that will always be linked because of how they came in and their juxtaposition in styles.

    Chance offering to teach Harris how to wrestle has some interesting potential, though I think it's a losing strategy. Stick to the awkward brawling you know and love! We'll see if Harris is an in-ring prodigy and can pick up the new style quickly.

    Hanzo vs Jordan Trance

    I will start by mentioning that rules wise, as far as letter of the law goes, Hanzo did nothing wrong.

    With that out of the way, I fucking hated this match. It felt like I just logged on and hit "quick ranked" in 2K22. I've continued to praise Hanzo for his understanding, skills, willingness to cooperate, engagement, and now his new look, but after the bell rings it's just not good.

    His moveset screams "these moves were all meticulously tested and all have the smallest reversal windows". Not a lot of logic to it really. Jumping people right when they get in the ring with said moves is also a bit lame. I still chock this up to Hanzo being in "survival mode" coming from quick play games online where it's EVEN WORSE and he's just trying to survive out there. I get that.

    I get so much character and life from the look and the man behind the character, but I just hate everything about what happens inside the ring. I know I've talked to him about the style and Jamie did as well + he's still a rookie, so I have high hopes for continued progress to a more fun, watchable, and less video game style the longer he's with us.

    Assault on Ashley Moore (and on my eyes)

    So first and foremost, I'm really not sure what went wrong here. Based on the GT, it looks like Ashley recorded the footage, so why is the aspect ratio so off? It was distracting for me and all the handlers have been here long enough to know how to render a video so I assume this is a one-off. Maybe someone using a new editor or something, but please don't do this anymore lol.

    Two lines of dialogue here, cutting to the chase. Appreciated for brevity, but I would like some more between these two, as I still think we're leaving development and care on the table for Evelyn and Mina. For now, I'm still muddy on their motivations and connection. That might be on me for forgetting something they did, but there's a lot to be said about repetition and clarity as far as being memorable goes.

    Ashley's sorta in the ether where I'll cheer her face or heel for now, until she decides to commit heavily to one side or the other. She's earned that for now. Anywho, forgettable beatdown due to lack of background or context and the aspect ratio didn't help matters.

    Jasmine talks to Marcus

    Enjoyed this one a lot, not a whole lot of bad to say about it. Jasmin's representation and depth actually had more of an effect on TWC/Marcus than the inverse, which is the opposite of what I expected when she joined with them.

    There's mentions of both Marcus and Jasmin's previous feud as well as her current/next one, while also keeping her themes consistent with what we know about her. A fish-out-of-water loner looking to fit in, troubled by misunderstanding and now a stalker. Marcus' shifting towards care and comfort is also not out of character, since he's had his own run ins with his past and his consequences.

    All in all, hit every note it needed to and pushed about 4 narratives forwards. Good work.

    Scotty X vs Samsin Simsin

    It's gotta be hard to beat a women's title match, especially with a returning Holly, but this is a close 2nd.

    After being underwhelmed by the matches up to this point, these two killed it. Scotty is really growing on me quickly and Samsin's commitment through some awkwardness is great. I like Scotty's moveset and this is a great feud for each of them. Doesn't have to be over the top or deeply nuanced.

    Hopefully we're able to see a little more development from Scotty as he moves forward, but as far as aesthetic and in ring style goes, I'm loving it so far.

    The ending sees Wrex appear to dish out his own brand of discipline which is perfect shitty Wrex. Scotty making the save helps establish more clearly what side of the spectrum he falls on since he's so new, and has been sorta ambiguous so far. After the save, this doesn't appear to be over and done with just yet...

    Jordan Visits the Tent

    Medical tent is right after that brain damage. Love how Jordan uses that ass whooping as a content machine, showing us more about who Jordan is. Cracking jokes and turning his attention right to his gig later tonight.

    Nobody has a favorite dinosaur, you stupid fucking kid. The cliff hanger ending was also an interesting touch. I have a few theories, but regardless we really need to stop terrorizing our medical staff.

    Derek Heads to the GOAT Academy

    Another RP I really appreciated. It takes elements of what we've kinda been saying about Derek without taking it too far into shoot or non kayfabe territory. Even within universe, you would reasonably understand why Aries of all people is pissed about Derek's lack of presence and oomph as the new champion.

    To his credit, unlike some other RPs and segments, Derek does not take kindly to the disrespect and rather than being a doormat, shows some backbone reminding us what he had to do in the chase to the gold.

    Aries points here are so well said and delivered clearly enough without being shitty or shooty. It comes off exactly as it should. A mentor who gave so much to a guy wanting him to do better and motivating him to do so. Given their background, I am looking forward to Claudio vs Derek and if Derek retains, this would be amazing as a catalyst for a more prominent International Champion going forward.

    Handicap Match TWC/Horse

    I do understand why this happened, chaotic new GM setting things right as a result of the flag burning. There was no setup or RP (on this show prior to the match) from TWC as to why they specifically were chosen, so they seem even more irrelevant in this whole thing.

    Also you all know I'm not a "pro wrestling playbook must always be followed" kind of guy, but I think all parties here could do with a little more clarity in their motivations. Between TWC, EMP and Blacksmith, none have really been bonafide in their alignment.

    It's a handicap match, it was never going to be interesting match wise, but good for John Carter for not being so sad anymore. He looks like Damian Bourne now.

    Garcia and Stacy have a chat

    Garcia - for me - is at this weirdly manic stage post-NA title run where he's being very slippery and suspicious. The dissolved relationship between Garcia and Jasmin makes that even worse. Emotionally, he's been through the ringer already in his career.

    Despite looking very shady in all of this, Garcia seems like a red herring for me though the "I'm going to do something about it" is ominous and has me excited for which of the two directions that goes.

    Also, fuck your arm. I'll break it again.

    Don't Kobe 2 New York

    A perfect feud partner for Blacksmith and while I didn't love the punishment handicap match, this reminded me that we have a sick match on the way at the PPV and keeps the stipulation at the front of mind. There will be Asian's wielding Asian beat sticks.

    Farmer Mark Reese

    Short and sweet. Mark Reese continues to have presence despite being on sabbatical and his stupid redneck jokes always make me laugh. A very cool line at the end "They want me to come to New York" on the DCTNY go-home show is brilliant. Excited to see what they want from him and what our next move is for ole Mark.

    Deaver vs Verde

    Although it wasn't as competitively interesting or entertaining as the Samsin/Scotty match, it still was a fun match that told an unexpected, though effective story. With Greene usually getting his ass kicked throughout matches and showing heart, it was very cool to see that Kassidy's influence flipped that script and showed that Greene can be dangerous in the ring.

    Another low-key thing I think this helped with was getting Deaver over as a good guy. He came in as a very easy to hate figure and with this deception coming so soon after his first real connection with someone, it's easy to feel bad for him and see the "Believe In Me" signs as more good than arrogant.

    New Kasstian looks powerful. New babyface garners more sympy. Didn't hate.

    Greene Gloats with Kasstianity

    More use of Morrison Method as a book-like narrator instead of an neutral force. Helps define narratives clearly, even if they are a little more spelled out than usual themes.

    There are two cool things I wanna point out in this one. First, Chris' immediate new confidence undermined by his lap-dog like "I did good, right boss?" It's not a negative comment, it plays perfectly into what we know Chris to be. Looking for a place as he has been throughout his career. Seeking validation and through two unsuccessful attempts to do so, finding Kasstianity as his newest venture to prove himself to others.

    Also, Kassidy's excellently shitty "This is what I wanted from you, unbothered by other people's wants and beliefs" just so perfectly hypocritical and shitty even in the face of that very clear hypocrisy. It's so obviously Kassidy taking advantage of either a young naive person or one who is in a vulnurable position (which are both applicable to Greene right now), which he's done throughout his career very well (Sparks/Parker/EMP/B17/Mujera/etc).

    Also lots of references to belief, which both works for Kasstianity as a cult as well as to Deaver's mantra.

    Have to say, I'm having a ton of fun with Kasstianity's storyline, as it doesn't just exist in one bubble between two parties, but rather stretches effectively throughout the entire roster without stepping on any toes or having too much awkward placement or contradiction and as someone feuding with Kasstianity, having other pieces I'm not aware of all the time is such a fun element that allows the stories to keep evolving.

    Marisa's Clark Effect


    The women's division is spooky as fuck these days. Between Terra, Noimara, Sue, and now Marisa... Are they all linked? What is the damn code!

    Marisa's also so over with me that she has a little more room for error in clear character shifts, as we see in this one. That said, I can kinda reach for a bridge between her attitudes in the John/Iceman/etc story and this one, as even the most confident and brazen person can be brought to fear and paranoia with the right cause.

    The Microsoft Sam voice is so unnerving to me for some reason.

    Keep the spooky comin'. Interested to see where it goes.

    DOC and OWEN do promos right

    Such a pro wrestling feud, such a pro wrestling promo. All of this is so simple yet so filled with substance. Huge fan.

    Off the bat, DOC is very good at that repetition and clarity I talked about before. Even his brief callbacks allow you to understand his emotions without the need for you to have been there for all of those moments. You can feel the heart in it and I'm very glad this one was not a video promo. DOC and OWEN have put on some of the better RP-only promos I've read in a while.

    OWEN has really shifted from "I'm no slouch I can show fire too" in a babyface way to now definitely leaning heel. The mocking at the start after a passionate promo that put him on a pedestal (by comparing his bouts with Tony to his bouts with OWEN, high praise tho indirect and didn't insult him). The arrogance and confidence in saying Sanctum are the greatest tag team in OCW.

    OWEN also brings up some of the not so happy moments for DOC in his career to immediately relate them to his happy ones, showing that he's also a knowledgeable threat to DOC and his weaknesses.

    It was just good shit. RPOTN. Very excited for OWEN DOC II: Electric Boogaloo.

    Harris Turner vs Elliot Parker

    a "momentum is everything" kind of match for two men going into big PPV matches.

    I love Elliot winning here, as while nobody in OCW "needs" wins to be effective if they're good enough at OCW, from strictly a view/kayfabe standpoint, this new cerebral character Elliot has benefits a lot more from it heading into a match he's the underdog in. This win combined with his influence over Parca's mind earlier in the night establish him as a real threat to win that NA title.

    For Harris, well maybe he should stop trying to out wrestle people and just shoulder tackle and heart punch them to death. His war with Marcus stretches beyond any perception of legitimacy or momentum, and yet his reputation adds to Elliot's win.

    The latter half of this show is so much better than the first. A decent match, nothing mindblowing but it had it's relevant effects on two PPV competitors and that's good enough for me.

    Where the Hell is Quartz

    You heard the lady, Quartz is doing Quartz, which given his gimmick sounds way more fantasy fic than I intended, but maybe head to #ocw-fan-fic and see the latest manga.

    Derek Acknowledges the Cheeks

    I praised the RP earlier, but then Derek came out to face Claudio without the International Title. Why? You should always have the belt when you can.

    I get that you were running right into an interaction that didn't involve it, but a simple entrance w/ belt, cut to crowd, then cut back to Derek rushing the ring gives at least the impression that you had it and dropped it on the ground to rush the ring when the camera cut away. Be creative!

    From there, a simple brawl between two meaty men. Nothing too noteable, though I appreciate that Derek didn't just get walloped and stay down. Taking Aries words from earlier to get back up and try to fight before Claudio ran like a little bitch. This one has way more alignment clarity than some other places, so I can appreciate that.

    Fuck Claudio

    Maxx Storage Meets

    Maxx's shattered mental state is very upsetting for me. It began with Kasstianity and even after bouncing back, it seems to be lower than ever. I will say it's a perfect dynamic with Colin's usual upbeat nonsense though.

    Also brings to mind the way each wrestler is reacting to some pretty dark, pretty horrible states. With Colin being able to conquer Jacob Trance and return to his confidence and Maxx suffering a similar fate, but still unable to shake the results of that experience despite breaking free of Kasstianity's hold.

    I loved the line from Maxx sorta offering the "other perspective" in the Team OCW narrative, showing that it's not exactly the collaborative, sunshiny, confident team and that you can draw comparisons between Kass' followers as puppets and Team OCW's followers as "clay soldiers". It's when ambiguous characters or heels in general explain a reasonable and understandable motive for their actions, even if you don't agree with the actions themselves, that's when you can truly appreciate a "bad guy" or someone who toes the line.

    Maxx is so great at character evolution, I feel we've seen so many different versions of him without going so far as to lose the core of what makes Maxx, Maxx. It's very hard to do but it's no surprise I'm a fan of Maxx's stuff. This new darker side is another one that has a lot of reasonable directions that I don't think are predictable, that I'm excited to keep an eye on (pun definitely intended).

    Also from a strictly fan standpoint, Maxx is one of our best team ocw guys, please don't take him away from us.

    Rust Is No Bitch

    Of course taking advantage of the fact Quartz' is not in the building is such a Kass move.

    Rust's history of making enemies clearly fucked him up in this one, as he gets absolutely no save from a locker room he's been a french shit head to for a long time now. Despite that, showing up even while being outnumbered is a brave look. I loved the direction they took to have Greene attack him from behind to set the attack in motion.

    Fuck you Kassidy Hayes, you KISS demon wanna-be weasel cult fuck.

    I'll be back at DCTNY.

    Antonio Everrett Pre-Memorial

    Great scene setting with the first paragraph. Got the visual right away.

    Hoooly fuck this was another superb "pro wrestling" segment. The reveal in Morrison Method of Tony being one of the hooded Kasstians popped me huge.

    I imagine the urge to try and make this a video was strong, but Tony (and props to Harvey as well) is one of the best at executing action-based stuff with werdz.

    Harvey doing perfect Kasstianity bits by trying to recruit his opposition fits in well, also more recognition of his history and character, albeit brief at the start.

    The hood reveal is always classic and beating up nameless grunts is as well. Tony vs H2O by itself is a sell but they've done a great job in the build up to DCTNY in my dumb ass opinion.

    Women's World Title Match

    What an awesome match. Holly is back to being crazy coked out Holly and still has that fire to be world champion again after coming up short over and over and over.

    Unfortunately for her, she comes up short again here, but the match was awesome. MOTN in my opinion. The ending and the back and forth trying to end things was very entertaining and the blocked mist into the chokeslam is such great organic storytelling, since that same exact move won Furi the match at Summercide and put Terra on the shelf. A great example of how OCW just accidentally creates great moments.

    These two put on a show and it was well worth the ME slot, ended the show on a high after a lot of touch and go videos/segments in the first half.

    Post Match RP

    Furiosa denying not one, but TWO rescue missions that went for the title and to fish away Heather from the hold of Kasstianity.

    I did appreciate the bit of Heather we got in this RP with H2O, showing that she's still there somewhere, even if she doesn't necessarily have it in her to break free from Kasstianity. The teases of this in the leadups to both Cide and this match, while still having Furiosa win, leaves a lot of potential for the future for this to come up again.

    For now though, Kasstianity stands tall again.
    --

    Final thoughts

    The RPs added a lot to this show. I left the steam part with a real bad taste of this show, and I still think we can do a lot better.

    I mentioned the technical issues, the audio and the aspect ratios and stuff. This is so easy to catch on a single rewatch or glance through and we really shouldn't be having these problems at this stage. I also mentioned that the people involved were mostly vets enough that I don't think this will be a consistent problem. Just one offs and I'm not overly concerned.

    Creativity is also something we can work on a bit. I am not an anti-beatdown or anti-physicality guy. It's pro wrestling, that's going to happen. It's about the context and surrounding elements of any attack that makes it effective. Play to emotions. Find something to make the physical elements more interesting. The game is flawed, but it gives us a solid amount of creative tools to work with...

    and if you can't do that, Tony showed beautifully on this show how to do something in text-only formats. Forget about "well I want everyone to see it right away" stuff, if it's more effective then be patient and let people engage with the text.

    The text improved the show, but not to amazing levels. We can and will do way better than Turmoil 287 and I know DCTNY will be one of those moments when we do. I have faith.

    Also I waited to do this since I wanted the bullshit to die down about the video.

    To wrap up on that, just wanted everyone to have the reminder that OCW and our product is #1. We work together on the same team to make things we can all enjoy. Every single one of us is capable of missteps or miscues or bad ideas here or there. The reaction took on a life of it's own and became a fucking pile on (as Maxx talked about) with over the top comparisons to cheat and super aggro dialogue in Discord.

    I already talked to Brian about it and there's no doubt that his equally aggro responses only blew it way more out of proportion and made him look like a selfish asshole. Hard to have grace when guys that are highly respected are comparing you to the cheat, though.

    All in all, this is done and over with. Let's all move on and try to have a little more grace in our interactions in Discord and not be so paranoid that everyone is out to get us or everyone is trying to fuck on him or her all the time. Trust is a big part of why our shows are so entertaining for all parties.

    Let's all forget about this bullshit and focus on the future.

    Then. Now. Tog-

    wait no that's not ours.

    anyways, ciao. Thanks yall
    Last edited by Quartz; 10-18-2022 at 01:45 PM.

    President and leading member of the Paul Pugh Fan Club. We love KidEgo

  11. The Following 14 Users Marked the hell out to Quartz For This Awesome Post:

    Antonio Everrett (10-20-2022), Chris Greene (10-23-2022), Christian Garcia (10-20-2022), Drago Cesar (10-18-2022), El Parca (10-20-2022), EMP (10-19-2022), Hard2Obtain (10-18-2022), Kassidy Hayes (10-18-2022), Lotus FloJo (10-18-2022), Mr.Sensation (10-18-2022), Patolomai (10-18-2022), Samsin Simsin (10-19-2022), TheAndrews (10-18-2022), theSolomonCaine (10-18-2022)

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